Wars of the Roses

[Cubster]

With this Wargames Illustrated (Sept issue 299) having a WotR theme it has rekindled my love of the period.

However, despite the fact that I have read several books on the conflict, not to mention spent many years playing Kingmaker with my brothers, I am still completely confused by the whole damn thing. I think it's just the sheer volume of names that pop up and shuffle about. Mix in titles instead of/as well as names, with sons inheriting the title (and sometimes name) from their dead fathers and nobles changing sides as the fancy takes them, and I'm afraid my brain starts to shut down fairly quickly.

Tell me it's not just me?

Aside from that, I love the whole look of the period with masses of heavily armoured billmen, longbowmen and then variously armed mercs and free companies ... does it get any better?

[westwaller]

I picked up a box of Bows and Bills on ebay recently, but yes I am slightly confused by it all too I think it may be best to look at one battle at a time. Or if you want play both sides, paint up your troops as Stanleys!

[Cubster]

Or if you want play both sides, paint up your troops as Stanleys!

That was my idea! It helps that the Stanleys are (if family rumours are to be believed) ancestors of mine, and you get both father and son to choose from, so there's a nice easy 'expansion' option if you want your force to grow.

Grimsby Wargames Society have a lot of great WotR flags for free download - http://grimsbywargamessociety.webs.com/ ... nloads.htm - but sadly the Stanley boys ain't there.

[shadegate]

If someone can recommend and easy way into this period I'd be interested too. By that I mean a good starter book that gives a reasonable overview from which I could direct further research into the areas I find most interesting from a gaming point of view.

I saw the Tewkesbury battle re-enactment this year and was very impressed by the colour and sheer spectacle. (and this year was reduced in size due to one of the campsites finding itself a foot underwater on the Friday night)

Plus the Perry range is too good to pass up for too long

[mikeland]

If someone can recommend and easy way into this period I'd be interested too. By that I mean a good starter book that gives a reasonable overview from which I could direct further research into the areas I find most interesting from a gaming point of view.

I saw the Tewkesbury battle re-enactment this year and was very impressed by the colour and sheer spectacle. (and this year was reduced in size due to one of the campsites finding itself a foot underwater on the Friday night)

Plus the Perry range is too good to pass up for too long  :D

I was at Tewksbury too this year... It was a good scrap. 

Really getting into this era, love the look of it all.

Understand the period is hard but it helps to think of it as 3 conflicts.

 Phase 1. 1455-64  ish Richard of York (and later his son Edward) vs Henry VI
              Richard is killed, but the Yorkists win major victory at Towton and Edward becomes king Edward IV.

Phase 2. 1468-71 ish Edwards reign is challenged by Henry IVs wife Margaret of Anjou and her son (also called .Edward). Yorkists under Edward IV win decisive victory at Tewksbury. Margaret of Anjous cause is lost her son killed, and a few days later Henry VI dies in prisoned in the tower. 
That branch of house of Labcaster is virtually erased.

Phase 3. 1483-1487 ish Edward IV dies and his Brother Richard III takes the throne. but is soundly defeated at Bosworth by a new Lancastrian cause under Henry Tudor (Henry VII). Who then married Edward IVs daughter and united the two houses. 

So 3 phases, 3 decisive battles.

As to liverys you have quite some leeway. Foreign mercenaries, changing sides , peasant levies etc give a huge choice. The boxes and leaflet included in the perry box are a good start. 

I was told that often the troops were just given the cloth and made their own garments out of it.

I have found the Osprey Wars of History a good book for the basics.

Lancaster And York: The Wars of the Roses by Alison Weir is good.

And Fatal Colours: Towton, 1461 by George Goodwin. Is an excellent book on Towton.

[Cubster]

If someone can recommend and easy way into this period I'd be interested too.

This one is definitely more in the 'light reading' category - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bosworth-Field- ... 012&sr=8-6 - I picked it up in a bargain shop for a couple of squids.

The problem is, the various shennanigans and arsing about went on for ages, so you've got a huge cast of people flitting in and out of the story, often changing their aims and allegiance as they went along.

I think Westwaller has a very good recommendation there, just pick a battle and have a look at that, then maybe move onto another and try to slowly put the pieces together in your head. I'll be aiming at Bosworth I think, for simplicity's sake, then perhaps working backwards. I sometimes find it easier to fix historical things in my head working backwards, as though by knowing where it ends up I can more easily understand each step of the way.

[janner]

It's at the tail end of my period of study, but I have a modest force in the service of the Earls of Northumberland. Here's some useful links:

Free background reading available at the Battlefields Trust website:

http://www.battlefieldstrust.com

Just use the search for a battle option - they also run guided walks for members that generally end in a pub

The Lance and Longbow Society also do some great guides - try any of the source books for their Poleaxed Rules with lists of participants, maps etc. and you can then go to their forum and ask for help (of course paying the modest membership fee which also a great little journal called Hobilar drops through the door every once and a while):

http://forum.lanceandlongbow.com/index.php

Little Big Man Studios do some fabulous flag sheets, including some transfers for retinues.

Regards,

[Cubster]

Thanks Janner, I'm going to share those about a bit I think.

[grant]

The War of the Roses is a 1989 American film based upon the 1981 novel The War of the Roses by Warren Adler. It is a black comedy about a wealthy couple with a seemingly perfect marriage. When their marriage begins to fall apart, material possessions become the center of an outrageous and bitter divorce battle. This is the third film to co-star Michael Douglas, Kathleen Turner, and Danny DeVito, after Romancing the Stone and its sequel, The Jewel of the Nile. The film also had producer James L. Brooks and actor Dan Castellaneta working on a project outside of The Simpsons. The opening title sequence was created by Saul Bass.

In both the novel and the film, the married couple's family name is Rose. The title also alludes to the battles between the Houses of York and Lancaster at the end of the Middle Ages (see Wars of the Roses).

[Cubster]

"Please disregard previous post."